The Christchurch Civic Creche Case

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Transcripts of Interviews with child witnesses

Kari Lacebark aged 6,
5th interview recorded 28 Oct 1992

(Names as used in the book "A City Possessed" )




A††††††††† And Peterís mother just kicked me and hit me like this. She kicked me and hit me.

Q††††††††† And whereabouts did that happen? Whereabouts were you when Peterís mum kicked you and hit you?

A††††††††† Peterís mumís place.

Q††††††††† Mm, how did you get there? How did you get to Peterís motherís place?

A††††††††† In the white van.

Q††††††††† Who drove?

A††††††††† Peterís mother.

Q††††††††† Mm.

A††††††††† It was a truth, it was.

Q††††††††† Yeah, it was the truth. And who, who did, who went with you Ö to Peterís motherís place? Who went with you?

A††††††††† I canít remember.

Q††††††††† Did kids go or just adults?

A††††††††† Just I did and adults.

Q††††††††† And.

A††††††††† And Marie and Gaye and Debbie. Thatís all.

Q††††††††† Marie and Gaye and Debbie went with you?

A††††††††† Yeah, thatís all I have to tell you because thatís all I can remember.

Q††††††††† And what made Peterís mother hit and kick you?

A††††††††† I have no idea.

Q††††††††† How many times did she hit you?

A††††††††† 17.

Q††††††††† How many times did she?

A††††††††† Each day.

Q††††††††† How many days did she kick you?

A††††††††† And 17 days a week.

Q††††††††† And what did the women teachers, what did Marie and Gaye and Debbie do?

A††††††††† Canít remember.

Q††††††††† Well, were they there when Peterís mother kicked you or not?

A††††††††† No.

Q††††††††† Who was there when she kicked you?

A††††††††† Um, well, let me see, let me see.

Q††††††††† Get Peterís mother and Ö again, where are they?

A††††††††† And thatís all.

Q††††††††† Where was Peter when Peteís mother kicked you?

A††††††††† He wasnít there.

Q††††††††† Where was he?

A††††††††† He wasnít there. He was at the crŤche. Well, I wish I can go because thatís all I can remember.

Q††††††††† Mm, whatís it feel like having to remember these things?

A††††††††† Not very good but I canít even remember anything much now.

Q††††††††† Mm.

A††††††††† Cos Iíve told you.

Q††††††††† Mm.

A††††††††† Iíve forgotten it all. I am telling the truth.

Q††††††††† Mm mmm.

A††††††††† It is.

Q††††††††† Yep, hey Ö Um, can I just ask you a few more questions about Peterís mother?

A††††††††† One more because Iím getting sick.

Q††††††††† How?

A††††††††† I donít feel very so well.

Q††††††††† How did you know it was his mother?

A††††††††† I just did.

Q††††††††† Yeah and, um, how, how did you know that though? What made you thought it was his mother?

A††††††††† Peter told me.

Q††††††††† And, and his, Peterís motherís house?

A††††††††† Mm.

Q††††††††† Who lives there with her?

A††††††††† No one.

Q††††††††† Mm mmm, what does his, Peterís motherís house look like?

A††††††††† I canít remember, I canít remember, [female name].

Q††††††††† Okay, thatís all right. Iím just thinking, if I donít say anything itís just cosIím thinking and.

A††††††††† Ö

Q††††††††† Yeah, okay, and Ö

A††††††††† What?

Q††††††††† Did anything else, did Peterís mother do anything else to you?

A††††††††† No, oh, oh, oh, no.

Q††††††††† Okay, so show me where she hit you and kicked you. Which parts of your body did she kick you?

A††††††††† Can I show with the dolls?

Q††††††††† Yep. Get, could you get one of, get that big doll over there, or one of those baby dolls and show me.

A††††††††† Youíve got some new dolls.

Q††††††††† Yep those are the new dolls.

A††††††††† He touched me there.

Q††††††††† Who did?

A††††††††† There.

Q††††††††† Thatís a boy doll, isnít it?

A††††††††† Ö go and get one. Is this the girl?

Q††††††††† Yep.

A††††††††† Touched me there.

Q††††††††† Who did?

A††††††††† He kicked me and hit me there [indicates groin area on doll].

Q††††††††† Peterís mother did.

A††††††††† Yep.

Q††††††††† Whereabouts were your clothes when, um?

A††††††††† Down on the floor, down on the floor Ö

Q††††††††† Where, where were her clothes when she kicked you and hit you there?

A††††††††† She had them on.

Q††††††††† And Ö what, could you just, you know the part you pointed to, tell me whatís the name of that part?

A††††††††† Vagina.

Q††††††††† And where, where were the other crŤche teachers when Peterís mother?

A††††††††† I canít remember. At the crŤche. I said that a million times.

Q††††††††† Mm mm.

A††††††††† Thatís all I can remember, [female name].

Q††††††††† Mm.

A††††††††† I want to go and see my mumma.

Q††††††††† Yeah, okay, um, yes, I know you, I can hear you. You do want to go and see your mummy. I know that. Um.

A††††††††† Cos thatís all I have to.

Q††††††††† Yeah.

A††††††††† Thatís all I can remember, that is Iím sick of.

Q††††††††† I think, can I just ask? Are you getting sick of it?

A††††††††† Yep.

Q††††††††† Mm, cou, could you just sit down. Iíve just got one question.

A††††††††† Just one more.

Q††††††††† Okay, you know how youíve told me that Peterís mother hit and kicked your vagina.

A††††††††† Mm.

Q††††††††† Like that. Sit down here for a minute. And Peterís mother, she sheís a woman, isnít she?

A††††††††† Mm.

Q††††††††† Cos mothers are women, arenít they?

A††††††††† Yes.

Q††††††††† Now Iíve heard, um, have you, have any other women ever done anything like that to your vagina before or not?

A††††††††† No, I canít remember. Oh, well, thatís the last question.

Q††††††††† Okay, could you stay in here for a little minute while I take a wee break and Iíll come back?

A††††††††† No.

Q††††††††† Iíll just stay. Iíll just go away for 30 seconds and then Iíll come back. I just need to go and check with [female name] about something.

A††††††††† No, why canít I go? I want go home to my mummy.

Q††††††††† Mm, okay, all right. Well, I think, um.

A††††††††† Please.

Q††††††††† Maybe we should stop here because youíve had enough. Now if.

A††††††††† I want to go.

Q††††††††† Do, do you think that, um, you need to come back and tell me anything more or have you told me everything?

A††††††††† I think I have to come back.

Q††††††††† How much have you told, how much?

A††††††††† No, I donít think I need to come back, I mean.

Q††††††††† How much have you told me? Have you told me this much, that much or this much, that much?

A††††††††† Mm, Iíve told you that much.

Q††††††††† So how much more is there to tell me?

A††††††††† None more.

Q††††††††† Okay.

A††††††††† Please, now can I go?

Q††††††††† All right, okay, well, I think weíll, we will stop there.