The Christchurch Civic Creche Case

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Transcripts of Interviews with child witnesses

Eli Laurel aged 6, 3rd interview recorded 28 Oct 1992

(Names as used in the book "A City Possessed" )

A††††††††† Um, he had a, he had a ladder and he brought it up to the middle window in the crŤche and, um, up the stairs and through the middle window and then he opened the window and put the ladder in and go to the other window, um, of the Cranmer Centre and then got in and then creeped into a room, um, to do the mean things.

Q††††††††† What did he do, what were the mean things that he did in the room?

A††††††††† Lots of things.

Q††††††††† Mm whatís, tell me some, tell me a mean thing that he did in the room?

A††††††††† Um poked sticks up some of the kidsí bottoms.

Q††††††††† And how do you know he did that?

A††††††††† Because I saw him.

Q††††††††† Who did you see him do it to?

A††††††††† Me.

Q††††††††† What did your bottom feel like?

A††††††††† Um, scary.

Q††††††††† Mm and would, so your bottom, which is your bottom, which?

A††††††††† There.

Q††††††††† The bit that you sit on?

A††††††††† Yep.

Q††††††††† And it felt pretty ss, it felt scary on your bottom?

A††††††††† Yes.

Q††††††††† Mm, where did he get, whereabouts were your clothes when he did that?

A††††††††† Um he just pulled our pants down.

Q††††††††† And who was there when he did that?

A††††††††† Um, all of the men.

Q††††††††† What did the men look like?

A††††††††† Um, they all had funny haircuts.


Q††††††††† Okay, can you tell me the menís names?

A††††††††† Spike, Boulderhead, Yuckhead and, um, and Stupidhead.

Q††††††††† Stupidhead?

A††††††††† Yep.

Q††††††††† Are those, are those, how did you know those were their names?

A††††††††† Um, because they told us their names.

Q††††††††† So they were Spike, Boulder, Yuck and Stupidhead.

A††††††††† Yeah, no Yuckhead and Stupidhead.

Q††††††††† Yuckhead and Stupidhead and Boulderhead and Spike.

A††††††††† They all had head at the end of their name.

Q††††††††† And did, who was the one who hurt you bottom with a stick?

A††††††††† Um, Peter.

Q††††††††† Peter and what, what did, what did these ones do while he was doing that?

A††††††††† Um, they just did it to other kids.

Q††††††††† They did it to other kids?

A††††††††† Yep.

Q††††††††† And what were the women doing while the men were doing that?

A††††††††† They were doing it to other kids too except they were all doing different things at a time.

Q††††††††† Right, what were the different things that they did these people?

A††††††††† Um I didnít see because Peter was too busy doing it to me.

Q††††††††† Right. Could you describe to me when Peter made your bum scared, bottom scared with the stick?

A††††††††† When he poked it up my bottom?

Q††††††††† Yeah. How, where, whereabouts, how were you, were you sitting?

A††††††††† Standing.

Q††††††††† Standing up, yeah, yeah, so you were standing up?

A††††††††† Yes.

Q††††††††† And you were standing up straight?

A††††††††† Yes, straight.

Q††††††††† Mm and he put the stick in your bu, bottom.

A††††††††† Yep.

Q††††††††† And what did he do when it, the stick, was it in your bottom or on your bottom?

A††††††††† In it.

Q††††††††† And it felt scared?

A††††††††† Yep.

Q††††††††† And what did he do with the stick when it was in your bottom?

A††††††††† Um, he just kept it in there.

Q††††††††† Mm, how long for?

A††††††††† A long time.

Q††††††††† And then what did he?

A††††††††† Most of the day at crŤche.

Q††††††††† He kept it in there most of the day?

A††††††††† Yep.

Q††††††††† So what happened after he put the stick in?

A††††††††† Um, I cried.

Q††††††††† Mm mmm, who saw you crying?

A††††††††† Um, Peter and lots of other people.

Q††††††††† Mm. What did the other crŤche teachers do?

A††††††††† They, they were hiding so they didnít see us.

Q††††††††† They didnít see.

A††††††††† Us.

Q††††††††† So the other crŤche teachers didnít see?

A††††††††† No.

Q††††††††† Okay, they didnít see. Oh, you said that they didnít see us, okay. So I wonder who the women were then, what were their names?

A††††††††† I canít remember.

Q††††††††† Mm, have you seen them before?

A††††††††† No.

Q††††††††† Have you seen any?

A††††††††† Oh yes I saw Boulderhead, Yuckhead and Spikehead. Thatís all the people that we, um, um, that we.


Q††††††††† So before you said no one else hurt your bottom.

A††††††††† Yep.

Q††††††††† And now you said that all of them did.

A††††††††† Yep, I forgot.

Q††††††††† Yeah, so how, what, all of those four ones there?

A††††††††† Yep.

Q††††††††† Any others or not?

A††††††††† No.

Q††††††††† What about the other men that you donít know their names of? Did they or not?

A††††††††† Just the one.

Q††††††††† Okay, so how many times has your bottom been hurt with a stick?

A††††††††† Ah, lots of times. One time for each person.

Q††††††††† And, and when, when they were doing.

A††††††††† Six times.

Q††††††††† Six times altogether?

A††††††††† Yep.

Q††††††††† Okay and, [E], when people hurt bottoms with sticks, what do the other people do?

A††††††††† They just did it back.

Q††††††††† But.

A††††††††† Ö kids.

Q††††††††† I see and what do, what do the people who arenít touching the children do, what do they do?

A††††††††† They Ö everybody did it but it does it.

Q††††††††† Okay, and, um, what do they do that for?

A††††††††† I donít know.

Q††††††††† Do you know what makes them do that?

A††††††††† No.

Q††††††††† Do you know anyone else who does that stuff?

A††††††††† No.

Q††††††††† Mm, come up here, youíve disappeared. Now Iím asking a lot of questions arenít I.

A††††††††† Yesa.

Q††††††††† Noa, yesa, okay.

A††††††††† No, no, no, no, yes.

Q††††††††† Yes, yes, yes, yes, no, no, no. Now, [E], can I just take you back? You know how Peter took the stick and then poo, he did wiped the poos, put poos on you?

A††††††††† Yep.

Q††††††††† Now what happened to your clothes after he took the stick away?

A††††††††† Um, nothing.

Q††††††††† So what about your pants then?

A††††††††† Nothing.

Q††††††††† So how, did they stay down or did they come up or?

A††††††††† They came up.

Q††††††††† Who pulled them up?

A††††††††† The kids did.

Q††††††††† Mm, what about you, how did your pants get back up?

A††††††††† I pulled them up.

Q††††††††† Mm mmm and how many times did he put poo on you?

A††††††††† Um, one time.

Q††††††††† One time. Done anything else? Oh, weíve talked about some other things heís put on you, havenít we?

A††††††††† Yes.

Q††††††††† In the other interviews we talked about, we didnít talk about poos. did?

A††††††††† Thatís all Iíve got to say.

Q††††††††† Right, okay, can I just a few other questions about this building?

A††††††††† Mm.

Q††††††††† Oh, oh, and I just need to say, did Peter put anything else on your bottom?

A††††††††† No

Q††††††††† Just a stick?

A††††††††† Yes.

Q††††††††† Right, has anything else ever gone on your bottom? Thereís been a stick.

A††††††††† No.

Q††††††††† Right, I heard there might have been some other things that went on your bottom.

A††††††††† [Indicates no.]

Q††††††††† Okay. You know this, this is out of a window across a ladder and into another window.

A††††††††† Mm.

Q††††††††† Have you ever been up here on these buildings?

A††††††††† Yep, weíve been on the roofs.

Q††††††††† Who have you been on the roofs with?

A††††††††† Um, Peter and the men. Weíve been on the Cranmer Centre ro, roof.

Q††††††††† How, what colour is the roof up there, whatís it made of?

A††††††††† Some of itís grey, some of itís brown.

Q††††††††† Yeah.

A††††††††† Weíve been on two parts.

Q††††††††† Have you?

A††††††††† And also [male name] took me up there.

Q††††††††† Did he?

A††††††††† Up on the roof.

A††††††††† And [female name].

Q††††††††† Who took you up first?

A††††††††† Um, nobody took me up. Just [male name] and also we, we went on a really secret roof and climbed down a chimney.

Q††††††††† Who, who did you do that with?

A††††††††† [Male name].

Q††††††††† Did you go with [male name] or [male name].

A††††††††† Um, [male name] and [male name] and Daddy.

Q††††††††† Oh, okay.

A††††††††† And [female name] and [female name] my sister cos they were too scared to go down the chimney that would be into a burning fire.

Q††††††††† Mm.

A††††††††† And Ö

Q††††††††† And, [E], you know when you said, I said have you been up here and you said Peter and the men took you up there?

A††††††††† Yeah.

Q††††††††† Tell me, tell me how they took you up there.

A††††††††† Well there was just, there was just windows and when you got out of the windows, the windows, um, it was, you were just on the roof.

Q††††††††† Right.

A††††††††† And then the window, that one opens on the roof, then you climb down a lad, ladder through the bit and then you climb down a chimney and itís, and then you climb down some stairs and it lead to the room.

Q††††††††† What, which room, the room where the mean things were?

A††††††††† Yeah.

Q††††††††† Is that right? And, um, which men took you up there?

A††††††††† Ö of them.

Q††††††††† Mm mmm and how many times did you go up there, up this part?

A††††††††† Um, every day.

Q††††††††† Did any women go with you or not?

A††††††††† Ah, all the time. All the women came up all the time and then the men came with me all the time.

Q††††††††† And which women were they? Tell me the names of the women who were.

A††††††††† I canít remember.

Q††††††††† Were they crŤche teachers or not?

A††††††††† No.

Q††††††††† Right were they, were they old women or were they young women?

A††††††††† Ah.

Q††††††††† Were they women? How were they? Do you think they were like Mumís age or Grandmaís age or?

A††††††††† Mumís.

Q††††††††† Your mumís age.