The Christchurch Civic Creche Case

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Transcripts of Interviews with child witnesses

Eli Laurel aged 6, 2nd interview recorded 27 Apr 1992

(Names as used in the book "A City Possessed" )




Q††††††††† And weíll talk about what you have come back, weíll just start with what youíve come back to tell me today.


A††††††††† Yeah.


Q††††††††† So can you can you begin with that stuff?


A††††††††† Um.


Q††††††††† The easiest thing to start with.


A††††††††† Yep. Um, ah, donít really know what to say.


Q††††††††† Mmm, whatís it about? Whatís it?


A††††††††† The crŤche.


Q††††††††† Yeah, itís about the crŤche and what about the crŤche? What happened at the crŤche?


A††††††††† Um stuff that, um, things that P, um, Peter was do, um, was doing a lie.


Q††††††††† Yeah, Peter, and Peter was what?


A††††††††† Um, a li, a, um, telling persons a lie.


Q††††††††† Peter was telling lies?


A††††††††† Yep.


Q††††††††† Who was he telling lies to?


A††††††††† Um, lots of persons.


Q††††††††† Yeah, what, adults or kids?


A††††††††† Um, kids.


Q††††††††† Yeah and what was the lie that he was telling?


A††††††††† Um, he said, um, if you tell on him youíll go to jail or you, or you, or your parents might go to jail or you might die.


Q††††††††† Yeah, righ,t okay, So Peter told those lies and?


A††††††††† Yeah.


Q††††††††† And, ah, you said that he was doing mean things to you.


A††††††††† Yes.


Q††††††††† Mmm.


A††††††††† Well not me but other kids.


Q††††††††† Right, okay, so what was the mean things he was doing?


A††††††††† Um dipping people in the ponds and.


Q††††††††† Yep, he was dipping people in the ponds and?


A††††††††† Um, thatís all I know, I think.


Q††††††††† Right, I think, um, perhaps I could help you. Ah cos I remember some things and we talked about mean things to do with penises?


A††††††††† Yep.


Q††††††††† So what was what was that all about?


A††††††††† Um doing wees in peopleís face.


Q††††††††† Yeah, right, how now did you know he was doing wees in peopleís face?


A††††††††† Because I saw him.


Q††††††††† Okay, now what I would like to know is which children or was that children or adults he was?


A††††††††† Um children.


Q††††††††† Yeah, so which children did you see him do wees in their faces?


A††††††††† Um, donít, not, um, I canít remember.


Q††††††††† Were they your friends or not?


A††††††††† Ah, no. Theyíre other kids at the crŤche.


Q††††††††† Yeah.


A††††††††† Little ones and big ones.


Q††††††††† Little ones and big ones?


A††††††††† Yeah.


Q††††††††† So where were did it happen, which room?


A††††††††† Um in the toilet room.


Q††††††††† In the toilet, so Iíll write down toilet here. Okay, Iíll just. Could you just lift up for a minute and Iíll just, move that bit of paper along there so I can do writing, okay.


A††††††††† Yes.


Q††††††††† So it was the toilet room?


A††††††††† Yep.


Q††††††††† Thatís what that word says. Um and who was the littlest kid you saw it happen to?


A††††††††† Ah, I donít know.


Q††††††††† We had little.


A††††††††† Ö


Q††††††††† What?


A††††††††† Oh, I donít know.


Q††††††††† Little kids and big kids.


A††††††††† Yep.


Q††††††††† Right, okay, and, ah, whereabouts were the kids when he did wees in their mouth, faces?


A††††††††† Um in the toilet.


Q††††††††† Yeah, what, were they standing up or sitting down or?


A††††††††† Sitting, um, sitting, sitting down.


Q††††††††† Oh, on?


A††††††††† Toilet.


Q††††††††† On the toilet and where were their pants?


A††††††††† Um they had them down.


Q††††††††† Mm mmm. How did they get down?


A††††††††† Um they pulled them down.


Q††††††††† Yeah the kids did or?


A††††††††† Um, no, um, here, theyíre doing wees.


Q††††††††† Theyíre doing wees, yeah.


A††††††††† Yeah.


Q††††††††† And um.


A††††††††† Always pull them down when you do wees.


Q††††††††† Yeah, course you do. Otherwise you just do it in your pants, donít you?


A††††††††† Yeah.


Q††††††††† So, um, so Peter, so how big are the toilets like?


A††††††††† Ah.


Q††††††††† Whereabouts were you standing when or whereabouts were you when you?


A††††††††† At the toilet doors.


Q††††††††† Right.


A††††††††† Looking through them.


Q††††††††† Looking through the doors?


A††††††††† Yep.


Q††††††††† So who was the first kid you saw that happen to?


A††††††††† Lots of kids.


Q††††††††† The first one, who was the first one you saw it happen to?


A††††††††† Donít know. Canít remember.


Q††††††††† Mmm. What about the last kid you saw it happen to?


A††††††††† Canít remember.


Q††††††††† Mmm, um, so shall I think the last time you did tell me some names of some friends at crŤche, some people at the crŤche?


A††††††††† Yeah.


Q††††††††† You told me about [name].


A††††††††† Yeah.


Q††††††††† Yeah, did it happen to [name] or not?


A††††††††† Um, yes, yes.


Q††††††††† How did you know that?


A††††††††† Because I saw it.


Q††††††††† Yeah.


A††††††††† Him do wees in [name]ís face.


Q††††††††† Did you?


A††††††††† Yep.


Q††††††††† And what did [name] do?


A††††††††† Um, I donít know.


Q††††††††† What did you feel like when you saw it happen to the to [name]?


A††††††††† Ah, donít know.


Q††††††††† Did you feel happy or sad?


A††††††††† Donít know.


Q††††††††† What?


A††††††††† Happy and sad.


Q††††††††† Happy and sad?


A††††††††† Yep.


Q††††††††† What was the sad bit?


A††††††††† Um, donít know. Sad bit was the happy bit.


Q††††††††† What?


A††††††††† And the, um, sad bit.


Q††††††††† What did you, so, [E], what?


A††††††††† Yeah.


Q††††††††† How do you feel about it now?


A††††††††† Aa, good.


Q††††††††† Mmm.


A††††††††† Good because weíve telled.


Q††††††††† Because youíve told?


A††††††††† Yep.


Q††††††††† Yeah, good because youíve told.


A††††††††† Yep.


Q††††††††† Well how do you feel about Peter?


A††††††††† Um, bad.


Q††††††††† Mmm. Do you know anyone else who does stuff like to kids?


A††††††††† Ah, no, burglars.


Q††††††††† Burglars do it?


A††††††††† Burglars do it.


A††††††††† Yep.


Q††††††††† Mmm, anyone else?


A††††††††† Um, no, donít know, just big bullies.


Q††††††††† Big bullies do that stuff.


A††††††††† Yeah.


Q††††††††† Okay so what so how many times did you see it happen to [name]?


A††††††††† I donít know, just one time.


Q††††††††† And where, was [name] a boy or a girl?


A††††††††† A girl.


Q††††††††† And where was she?


A††††††††† Um, in the toilets.


Q††††††††† Mmm and what did you see happen to [name]?


A††††††††† Um Peter doing wees in his face.


Q††††††††† Yeah and how did the wees come out of his penis?


A††††††††† It just came out.


Q††††††††† Mmm, where were his hands?


A††††††††† Um.


Q††††††††† When they?


A††††††††† Donít know.


Q††††††††† Came out of his penis?


A††††††††† Donít, I canít remember.


Q††††††††† So was the toilet, so you were standing at the door?


A††††††††† Yeah.


Q††††††††† So did, did you see Peterís back or Peterís front?


A††††††††† Um his back and his front.


Q††††††††† Right so how come you saw both?


A††††††††† Um, because I did.

Ö


Q††††††††† Mmm, okay, and, ah, so I think also what, well, I mean, I know that last week you did tell me that Peter did some mean things to you too.


A††††††††† Yeah, mmm.


Q††††††††† Yeah and how many times, well, what was the thing that, do you remember what you told me?


A††††††††† Um, no.


Q††††††††† Mmm, well last week you told me that Peter did a mean thing.


A††††††††† Yep.


Q††††††††† And that, um, one of the things that heís done to you is that he um?


A††††††††† Didnít do it to me.


Q††††††††† Right because I think you told me. Well you did tell me that last week it did happen to you.


A††††††††† Oh yeah.


Q††††††††† That thing there, that.


A††††††††† What.


Q††††††††† The penis in your face.


A††††††††† Yeah, it did.


Q††††††††† It did happen to you?


A††††††††† Yeah.


Q††††††††† Mmm, so what, what, what do you feel like when, when you think about that stuff?


A††††††††† Um, good.


Q††††††††† Good? What makes it feel good?


A††††††††† Because I told the teacher.


Q††††††††† Oh, because you told, yeah. What about having to talk about it and remember that it happened to you?


A††††††††† Um, good.


Q††††††††† Yeah and how many times did that happen to you?


A††††††††† Um, one.


Q††††††††† Mmm and when the penis went in your face.


A††††††††† Yeah.


Q††††††††† What did it do?


A††††††††† Um, it went into my mouth.


Q††††††††† Yeah and it tasted?


A††††††††† Yucky.


Q††††††††† Anything else.


A††††††††† Um, no, just yucky.


Q††††††††† Yeah. And what when it went in your mouth, what happened?


A††††††††† Um.


Q††††††††† Next?


A††††††††† Um, he stopped doing it. I went and told the teacher.


Q††††††††† Mm mmm. And what went in your mouth to be yucky? I mean the penis went in your mouth, did the penis?


A††††††††† Yeah and there was wees.


Q††††††††† And what?


A††††††††† And the wees.


Q††††††††† The wees went in your mouth?


A††††††††† And the penis.


Q††††††††† Yeah and what did you do with the wees in your mouth.


A††††††††† Um, I swallowed it.


Q††††††††† Mmm what did that make you feel like?


A††††††††† Yucky.


Q††††††††† Any other feelings, [E]?


A††††††††† No.


Q††††††††† Mmm, so sometimes you say that that doesnít, that didnít happen to you.


A††††††††† Yeah.


Q††††††††† Yeah, what makes you say that?


A††††††††† Oh, I donít know. I just sometimes forget.


Q††††††††† Sometimes you forget.


A††††††††† Yep.


Q††††††††† Yeah, is that something, does it make it easier when you forgot or harder?


A††††††††† Ah harder.


Q††††††††† It makes it?


A††††††††† Harder.


Q††††††††† Harder?


A††††††††† Yep.


Q††††††††† What, what whatís the hard part?


A††††††††† Um, donít know


Q††††††††† Mmm. Um, so, um, because I guess the other thing I need to clear up with you is um.


A††††††††† What?


Q††††††††† That Mum thought you said to her that it happened lots of times.


A††††††††† Na, um, yeah, but not lots of times to me.


Q††††††††† Oh I see. So it happened to you once but it happened lots of times to kids?


A††††††††† Yep.