The Christchurch Civic Creche Case

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Transcripts of Interviews with child witnesses

Bart Dogwood aged 6, 5th interview recorded 28 Oct 1992

(Names as used in the book "A City Possessed" )

Q          There was a trap in the crèche?

A          Mm.

Q          Mm, what is a trap, what’s a trap?

A          Something that you fall down.

Q          Something that you fall down?

A          Mm, you know what a trap is.

Q          Yeah, yeah, I just, you know how, you know me, I have to get kids, ask kids to explain to me in their words because sometimes I might think that, oh, you’re talking about a different thing, so I need you to tell me what you mean. So, so it was a trap that you fall down. And so how, what made you go down the trap, did you, well did you go down the trap or not?

A          Mm, yeah.

Q          Mm.

A          Peter made us.

Q          Peter made you go down the trap?

A          Mm.

Q          Who did he make, who’s us?

A          Um, kids that were there.

Q          Mm. Which kids?

A          Um, me and [name], [female name, K] and, um, [male name] and [female name].

Q          [Male name] and [female name]. And, um, who else was there? Peter? Was there any, where were the other crèche teachers?

A          Um, ah, Peter’s mum was there, and Peter’s mum was there, and Marie, Gaye and Jan and Debbie.

Q          And so you did go? Peter made you go down the trap door?

A          Mm.

Q          And what, what happened in the trap, what, what, so you went, you went in the trap?

A          Mm.

Q          And then what happened?

A          We went to room 20.

Q          Mm, how do you know it’s called room 20?

A          Cos I could see a 2 0 on the door.

Q          When, when did you see 2 0 on it?

A          When I was, when I was about four.

Q          Mm mmm, cos I know that you, you’ve been into the crèche building lately haven’t you?

A          Yeah.

Q          Yeah. Who did you go there with?

A          Mum.

Q          Mm mmm and had you been there before? You know where you went with Mum. Had you been there before or not?

A          Yep, yeah, with Peter.

Q          Okay.


Q          So what happened in room 20?

A          Um there were papers in there and Peter, um, held us up and was yelling because Peter had told them … and there was a hook that the cages went onto the ceiling and Peter’s mother hanged us up on the ceiling.

Q          And she hanged you up on the ceiling?

A          Mm.

Q          What were the cages like?

A          Um, they were big.

Q          Mm.

A          And then they ran across like this [draws picture].

Q          Right and what was in the cages?

A          Us.

Q          Yeah, how many us, how many?

A          There was about five cages and one children in each cage.

Q          Okay and there was a big hook and you went up and and?

A          There was a ladder and there was a hook on the ceiling for the cage to, um, fit on.

Q          And where did the ladder go?

A          Up to the ceiling.

Q          Yeah and what was on the ceiling?

A          Hooks that you put up the cages with.

Q          So let’s draw that, aye. Can we draw that?

A          Hah.

Q          I’ll put my picture of the gondola over there. Draw me, um, the hook on the ceiling. Draw the ceiling.

A          Ah, oh, the ceilings …

Q          Yeah.

A          And there was a hook like that.

Q          Right.

A          And under the cage there was, um, a, it was.

Q          We’ll call that the ceiling, mm mmm.

A          And um … the cage.

Q          Yep.

A          And on the cage there was something like that.

Q          Yeah.

A          And that fits onto that.

Q          Oh I see and who hooked you up there?

A          Peter’s mother.